Lloyd wrote:
>Another example is Quebec French which more closely
> resembles 17th century French than it does modern French, or so I am told.
And what's funniest is that the French don't recognize Canadian French as
'real French'!
> Another aspect of English that I have noticed is a willingness to accept
> almost any pronunciation, especially from those to whom it is a second
> language.
I think it happens in relatively new countries with also relatively recent
and accepted immigration ( like Brazil, the U.S. and Australia ). Countries
with a more traditional national identity, like in Europe, will take
differences n a rather defensive way. That's basically the same difference
you find in the laws for citizenship: in European countries, what determines
whether you are a citizen is where your father or mother was born.
Therefore, if your parents are German and you're born in Italy, you're
German ( and it seems each country has a different law for inter-national
parenthood- unless it has been standardized for the European Union ), while
in 'younger' countries, like Brazil or the US, if you're born there, you
have their citizenship. Of course, that is due to our need to create a sense
of nationality, since it's impossible to say that African, Asian and
European imigrants or slaves share the same cultural identity.
> If I mispronounce a word while traveling in Europe, the natives
> are very quick to correct me. But English speaking people accept
> distortions of the language every day and seldom, if ever, correct the
> foreign speaker.
Don't forget there's strong anti-Americanism in Europe ( mostly cultural,
differently from the one found in some Arabic countries, which is also and
strongly political). Some years ago, I went to Hong-Kong and stayed in a
youth hostel. I was introduced to another Brazilian guy who was staying
there and started to talk with him and the secretary in English. When we
went to the cafeteria, where most people were Europeans, he told me to
disguise my American-like English accent or the other guests might take me
for an American and 'put me aside', as they had done to an American couple
about a week before.
>Make a mistake like that in Germany and they will
> immediately correct you but when German speaking people do it in English
> such a correction is seldom offered.
But Germans have an excuse, while Americans don't: German, as far as I'm
conZerned, is considered to be the language where spelling most agrees with
pronunciation.
> Once, on a train in Italy, I told a very well educated native that I was
> going to Spoleto which I incorrectly pronounced as Spolehto (/E/ rather
> than the correct /e/). She did not even recognize the name of the city at
> first and when she did she was very quick to correct my pronunciation. I
> was grateful for her correction but more than a little surprised at her
> honest inability to recognize the city from my pronunciation. Yet we in
> the US hear unimaginable pronunciations of Chicago, for example, and
always
> know what city the foreign speaker is attempting to pronounce and accept
it
> as OK.
Mmmmm... most people I know who have traveled to the US have an anecdote
similar to yours in Italy.
I don't know if that's your case, but the point is that we generally don't
know exactly what 'gestalt' ( or geZDalD? :-) ) a native speaker will make
out of what we say. Once, an American teacher at the binational center I
used to teach took a crowded bus but had to get off pretty soon ( on our
buses, you get on through the front door and get off through the rear one ).
He noticed people said something to ask for room to move back, so he tried
to imitate them with a whistle: "SS...SS", "SS...SS", "SS...SS". We assumed
he must have tried to reproduce a fast "LiCenÇa" ( Excuse me) :-)
I'm an English teacher and I have a very hard time trying to convince my
students of that problem. They assume that a native speaker will undestand
what they say just because a classmate or I understood them. I always have
to remind them that I'm not a cultural-colonization secret agent trying to
replace English for Portuguese: they're not going to speak English to
someone who speaks their native language! When I read a typical Brazilian
family name in class, like Silva, I say /sILv@/, not our /siUvA/, to expose
them tot he way Americans would pronounce it and what they should do to be
understood. Some say it's americanism. I say it's teaching!
> Your use of English Ciao is quite wonderous.
Thank you, but 'Ciao' is bye or hello in Italian. I'm CAIO...hehehe... maybe
Italian IS your second language :-) When I worked for United Airlines, I
used to send msgs to a help desk almost every day. When I visited their
headquarters in Chicago, they were astonished: they had always assumed CAIO
was a misspelled CIAO and Rossi was a Brazilian version of 'Rose'!
> I envy your ability in another
> language and I am sure English is only one of many other languages that
you
> speak.
Not really! Although I can understand a lot of Spanish and Italian and some
French, I can't actually speak those languages. If I had the time and money,
I would learn German and Italian, but I priorize English for cultural and
obvious professional reasons.
Bye, and sorry for taking too long to answer this one.
Caio Rossi
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