How about this, mike and Marthea:
There are different levels and kinds of phenomena which could fairly be
called 'body language'. At the most refined and conscious level is the
compendium of gestures used by dancers in many traditions (though I'm
thinking specifically of Western classical ballet); there is a more crude
but still quite conscious level in the gestural language of (in particular)
the Greek and Italian, and of western stage drama, we all use this a bit.
At the less conscious level (perhaps comparable to the verbal component of
Tourette's syndrome) is the range of unconscious gestures that (among
others) border crossing guards are trained to watch for. Just because a
language is somehow stunted, incomplete or contains many imitative or
onomatopoeic elements should not mean that we somehow refuse to treat it,
or respond to it as language. I'm so right, aren't I? john
At 12:47 PM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:
>dear cherished colleague marthea,
>
> jung distinguished signs from symbols. i would seperate language, by
>my definition, as a sign, from music, a symbol. where a symbol can be
>misinterpreted, a sign can only be misunderstood.
>
> with the use of a language (the word kind), we are attempting to be as
>specific as possible in communicating our point- a sign. in our use of
>music, we may be attempting to be specific or not, yet, with that message
>comes more than we meant and, often, more than we know- a symbol.
>
> body language is inadvertent. a lie detector is reading body
language.
> body language is at best a symbol. it is so vague, we'd be better off
>ignoring it. we'd certainly be better off not assigning specific meanings
>to it.
>
> i don't care if we call it language, i just think there is an essential
>difference as i have described above.
>
> (what is poetry? what if keypads were touch sensitive? would our
>e-mails reflect body language?)
>
> marthea, if this is our first argument, it sure has been fat.
>
>have a fly day,
>mike
>(ps. you know, like the kids)
>
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John Blyth
Baritono robusto e lirico
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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