Dear Eva and list,
--- ezuber@b... wrote:
Most of the lieder repertoire by
> Schubert, Schumann, etc., is
> known to the Germans - regardless if they sing or
> not.
I am sorry to have to say it so bluntly, but this is
absolute rubbish. I have lived for almost 10 years in
Germany, I have known German people all my live, I
grew up in a Dutch region 1 mile from the German
border that was German, language- and culture-wise,
but I have never met anyone, appart from a few fanatic
classical music lovers like myself, that knew more
than those few Schubert songs, that have been
mutilated into a folksong version: 'Das Wandern', 'Der
Lindenbaum' (=Am Brunnen vor dem Tore), 'Die Forelle'
and the Brahms songs that were folksongs long before
Brahms wrote them down.
Eva wrote furthermore:
> You can sing a lied even if your voice
> is totally "natural",
> and it still will sound good, even excellent. The
> secret in lieder is not
> so much the vocal technique but the German language
> (mostly old German),
> the culture, the tradition, and the history of a
> particular region in
> Europe at a particular time.
You cannot sing almost any Schubert or Schumann song
with an untrained voice, unless you sing it like a
folksong, but then you are not singing Schubert or
Schumann! The embellishments alone, are already too
difficult for most untrained voices. What is much more
important: almost all songs force you to change
dynamics quite often, especially in the passagio and
to use legato all the same and change colours often.
No untrained voice can do that, unless it is a natural
talent, and many trained voices are not even able to
do it, i.m.o..
There are so many things hidden in these songs, so
many things in the piano notes and in the text you
have to take care off, especially with Schumann, that
no beginner can even show more than 10 % of the things
that should be expressed. In such a case I would never
say it sounds excellent, and certainly not if somebody
is choking to force a piano without having the right
technique or singing all high notes voix-mixte due
lack of technique to sing them otherwise.
What really interests me: Eva, how do you compare this
excellent sounding beginners-singing with your own? A
beginner can sing excellent, measured to standards for
a beginner, ok. And sometimes it is better to hear a
beginner than a professional singer that is only
thinking about technique and/or about him or herself.
But I don't think a beginner can sing excellent,
measured to the standards Schubert music asks from us.
Even a 'beginners' song like 'Liebhaber in allen
Gestalten' requires, that you sing each strophe and
everything that is repeated, differently. If you don't
do it, the song is nice, but slightly boring, if you
do it, it becomes interesting, and if you do it well,
it can become art.
Finally: I have sung a lot of the romantic Lieder
repertoir as an absolute beginner years ago, and that
is why I know so well, how bad you can sing them. I am
still far from perfect now, but at least I know now
which things I have to change to be able to sing them
more or less right.
And ... the most important thing: I love this music
more than ever. I did not merely find difficulties,
but much more: countless hidden treasures, and I want
to make them shine as brilliantly as possible, and
treat them with the dignity they deserve.
Best greetings,
Dre
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