Denis and Mike,
You two both are right in some respects. Mike, the teacher I have
now is a good teacher that does both classical and pop. I believe
that she is a good singer and teacher despite if she is more leaned
towards Classical. I am actually taking this as a Voice lesson
through school, so school is helping me out with it which is always a
plus. But she was talking mainly about diaphramatic breathing last
time. I know that before I was using my diaphram, but I was forcing
my enlarged diaphram out instead of leaving it filled with air till
the end. Anyways, back to your question -- I don't think it is a
problem with the teacher, I am just looking for someone to teach me
the basics in singing and go from there. Although the difference in
musical style is there, she will teach me the basics and that is all
I am looking for.. Granted it would be great if I could find a male
tenor that is a vocal teacher that respects Pop/Rock/Metal music, but
I don't have the cash for that even if I could. I am doing this
through school which is good for me and affordable. I just hope that
I can improve my range and get my chest voice higher if possible.
(Denise) -- You are almost exactly right with a lot of stuff you
said. The thing that I wanted to tell you although is that those
baritone singers like Scott Wieland and Scott Staff don't hit me as
inspirational singers at all. I don't know, call me wierd, but it
seems that I like to work on stuff that is very hard for me. I
almost find it an incredible challenge to keep working on hitting
Chris Cornell or Layne Stale or Brandon Boyd (not too too much, but a
challenge). I don't know, maybe it's the stuff that I don't have
that makes me want it.. It makes me want to keep working on this
till I get it. See, Im sure knowing that you are a tenor, you can
hit every not on the radio or in your head and I just want to say
that you are very lucky to be a tenor. You can probably hit any
Chris Cornell or Brandon Boyd with no problem. But that is my goal.
I want to be able to get to those high notes and work from there. I
really like tenors because a tenor voice can cut the mix way better
than any baritone singer out there. A baritone voice is pathetic to
me and it never cuts through the PA or anything. I was doing better
once I was singing through the diaphram although. I could go all the
way to a G# above middle C (I was a little squeky, but hey I hit it
and I never did before). This was all with my chest voice too. I am
thinking that with practice I can get to an A above middle with my
chest. That is my goal at least. (Hey I was trying to sing creep by
Radiohead and that one part in the bridge is a high A with his chest
but it sounded like crap) Anyways, now that your knowing what Im
striving for maybe you can understand somewhat. As far as what else
you said, you are almost exactly right.. Except that squell or break
happens around F or so. So are you saying that I shouldn't try to
hit those high notes with my chest when I start to squel. I really
don't like that falsetto stuff such as Coldplay or something because
it sounds too wimpish in a way. I want to get a full on chest high
voice if possible. By what your message says, I don't think you can
or it would end up blowing my vocal chords. But answer me this
Denis. Have you ever tried to sing something over the radio and
couldn't hit that note? Like an Offspring song or something like
that? You probably haven't because your a tenor, but I do, and I
hate it. I really want to get into those high registers in my chest
voice like some of my inspirations that I mentioned if possible. How
the hell does Chris Cornell do it? His voice is so low in talking in
voice but so high singing...I know he had to be a baritone when he
first started cause he has a low talking voice.. If you are saying
that I can't or shouldn't try to do a high voice with my chest voice,
what would you recommend me doing to sing higher without jepeordizing
the tone of the chest voice? Like I said, I really dislike the sound
of falsettoing so I guess that leaves me with head voice if that is
not the same.. But I don't want to sound like Coldplay as my voice
gets higher..I want to have my voice to sound exactly like my
original tone chest voice as I get higher. If I can somehow pull
that off so as I sing to someone, they couldn't tell the difference
between my chest voice to my falsetto or head voice, then Im all for
it, if it can't be done, its like I lost the battle:( I know I can
do this and Ill keep trying to I get to this point, but I want to do
this doing the right technique in singing, not doing what you
mentioned as trying to force those high notes out. Any
suggestions? Sorry if Im writing a lot of questiions, you seem like
a really good teacher and someone I can look up to. Also, how do you
do head voice and how is it different then falsetto? Thanks, and
sorry for the long post, just interested in mastering singing:)
--- In vocalist-temporary@y..., "Denis J. Lanza" <voxman@s...> wrote:
> Mike,
> With utmost respect I must ask you, why did you go down this road
speaking
> of what his influences are doing? The bottom line is this guy came
here
> asking the fine people on this list to reveal some details of the
craft
> which is singing to him which is what he aspires to. It doesn't
necessarily
> matter what his influences are doing technique-wise. What matters
is that he
> doesn't ruin his voice trying to imitate or duplicate them. I know
> first-hand that he is going to do it with or without a teacher's
approval. I
> know I did! So why not alleviate that step of letting the guy go
out there
> develop miserable habits, tensions, etc. Then spend 2+ years just
getting
> back to square 1?! Its ludicrous.
> And that comment about trained meaning different things to
different
> people: I am not sure where you were going with that. I know quite
a few
> pop, rock and metal singers who are just as diligent with heir
training,
> technique, vocal usage, voice care as any opera singer, myself
included. In
> fact, the woman whom I just started studying with in NYC, (who is an
> associate of Seth Riggs), is a true operatic soprano, (had opera
career
> singing in major houses throughout Europe). Her name is Badiene
Magaziner.
> If she says something is healthy singing, I trust that. I mean one
can not
> listen to a singer like Geoff Tate and not hear that the man is
massively
> trained and has his vocal chops in fine order. But I am not here to
debate
> the validity of pop/rock/metal singing vs. classical/opera because
that is a
> poor dead horse that has been beaten bloody and senseless.
> To the original poster, blues singer, you NEED to find someone
who is
> capable of teaching/guiding you towards the attainment of sound
vocal
> technique. You see, if you try and "make" your chest voice go
higher, you
> are not allowing the cords to thin out and you're blasting air at
the cords
> trying to maintain that cord thickness and the resonance isn't
being allowed
> to shift upwards and vowels to modify. Your larynx is climbing up
your
> throat I'm guessing and you're seeing and feeling external muscle
> involvement in the tone-making process. I am guessing things are
sounding
> pinched, strained, splatty, flat, no ring, resonance, etc. I know
this all
> too well cuz its the way I used to sing! Its a dead end road,
believe me!!
> As you ascend, you will feel the voice wanting to shift somewhere
around D
> or E above Middle C. This is your first bridge (passagio). Now when
you are
> approaching that area, I am guessing that you start to blast air at
your
> cords to maintain the thickness of chest register through the
bridge. Thus
> you're keeping that sound in your mouth, your mouth and the vowel
are
> widening horizontally, your external muscles are coming in to try
and assist
> the muscles inside the larynx in holding back the massive amount of
air
> you're blasting at them. Pressure is building underneath the glottis
> (subglottal pressure), you reach a certain point and the cords being
> stretched like this and not allowed to thin then shorten can't
stretch any
> further, this coupled with the massive subglottal pressure demands
a release
> thus the cords blow open and you hear a distinct cracking/breaking
sound and
> then, you, my friend, have landed in falsetto. That's my guess at
what is
> occurring. Let me know how close I am. ;)
> And you more qualified folks, especially SLSrs, please help me
out here.
> Randy, Roccio, Barry, Mary Beth - help me out guys! :=)
>
> Yours In Music,
> Denis J. Lanza
> Lead Vocalist - Infinity Minus One
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greypins@a... [mailto:Greypins@a...]
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:27 PM
> To: vocalist-temporary@y...
> Subject: Re: [vocalist] Question about Singing
>
>
> denis,
>
> you have to admit that there is a wide range of that which is
considered
> 'trained'. i agree with you about the number of rock singers who
would be
> classified as baritones who manage to sing extremely high. chris
cornell,
> obviously, can sing extremely high and with reckless abandon. my
concern
> for the original poster is that it seems he has been catagorized as
a
> baritone. as he is interested in music where such designations are
> inappropriate, it seems that he is headed down the road of
frustration with
> regard to his vocal instruction.
>
> mike
>
>
>
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